Curse

sean520 · May 26, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

hello. I am currently playing with my Rit, which i love. Well, i have never played support before so im having some problems on which heros to use, and which builds to use. does anyone have any good hero builds for just; doing missions with heros/henchies, HM missions with heros, and farming titles with them (i.e Deldrimore, prot, maby guardian, asuran, VQ eventually, ect ect).

on my rit, i can run most builds, since they are so versitile, i have tryed many, as well as made some builds. so, does anyone have any idea on what to use for heros?

p.s. i know about sabway, and how easy that is, but im looking for something differnet, and something that maby uses rit heros

thanks guys!

joshuarodger · May 26, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

necros are problably the best heroes to use not matter what spells you want them to use. it's almost impossible for them to run out of energy at 8 sould reaping.

you could also use racthoh's paraway heroes. thread is around here somewhere. i think it's called "my paragon's buddies" if you want to search for it.

sean520 · May 29, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

any other ideas?

Cebe · May 29, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Since you posted this thread I have created a stickied guide which *may* go some way to helping you out.

If you're Rit, I would suggest a standard Channeling-Resto (Splinter-Rage), because you can help the team out support-wise, and still be offensive. Please see my Ritualist Guide if you need more information.

As for heroes. Try either a Cyclone Axe / Triple Chop Warrior or a Dervish so you have a platform on which to cast [[Splinter Weapon] and [[Ancestors' Rage].

Then it's just a case of building your team around 1 central theme. as joshuarodger says, there is a multi-paragon team build floating about, or mandragorway... Links and information can be found in the stickied guide here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264

When you're trying to create hero builds keep in mind who you are, and how you can build the party around your abilities. Ritualists need a platform for Splinter-Rage casting so...I usually prefer a warrior, just because they have a higher armor level and I consider them more "trustworthy" than Dervish heroes

- Perhaps something like:

[build prof=W/P name="Warrior Hero" box axe=12+1+1 strength=12+1]["For Great Justice!"][Flail][Triple Chop][Dismember][Executioner's Strike][Distracting Strike][Enraging Charge][Signet of Return][/build]
[build prof=N/Me name="Necro Hero" box curses=10+1+1 soul=12+1 dom=8][Weaken Armor][Icy Veins][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Power Spike][Signet of Lost Souls][Epidemic][/build]
[build prof=P/W name="Paragon Hero" box spear=12+1+1 command=9+1 leader=9+1]["For Great Justice!"][Merciless Spear][Stunning Strike]["Go For The Eyes!"]["Stand Your Ground!"][Anthem of Weariness][Anthem of Flame][Signet of Return][/build]

That was just a quick mess about with some skills for 5 minutes. No guarantees it will be any good but it looks quite fun.

I would consider giving the Hero Paragon [[Aggressive Refrain] (Instead of "SYG!" or "GftE!") if I could be bothered to micro him keeping it up out of battle, or if I were playing Paragon myself. Up to you.

Make sure you choose appropriate henchmen also. Monk henchmen are usually a staple choice, but given this team kind of supports physicals in quite a large way, consider taking more physical hench with you.

DarkSpirit · May 29, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Since you posted this thread I have created a stickied guide which *may* go some way to helping you out.

If you're Rit, I would suggest a standard Channeling-Resto (Splinter-Rage), because you can help the team out support-wise, and still be offensive. Please see my Ritualist Guide if you need more information.

As for heroes. Try either a Cyclone Axe / Triple Chop Warrior or a Dervish so you have a platform on which to cast [[Splinter Weapon] and [[Ancestors' Rage].

Then it's just a case of building your team around 1 central theme. as joshuarodger says, there is a multi-paragon team build floating about, or mandragorway... Links and information can be found in the stickied guide here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264

When you're trying to create hero builds keep in mind who you are, and how you can build the party around your abilities. Ritualists need a platform for Splinter-Rage casting so...I usually prefer a warrior, just because they have a higher armor level and I consider them more "trustworthy" than Dervish heroes

- Perhaps something like:

[build prof=W/P name="Warrior Hero" box axe=12+1+1 strength=10+1 tactics=8+1]["For Great Justice!"][Flail][Triple Chop][Dismember][Executioner's Strike][Distracting Strike][Enraging Charge][Signet of Return][/build]
[build prof=N/Me name="Necro Hero" box curses=10+1+1 soul=12+1 dom=8][Weaken Armor][Icy Veins][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Power Spike][Signet of Lost Souls][Epidemic][/build]
[build prof=P/Me name="Paragon Hero" box spear=12+1+1 command=9+1 leader=9+1][Epidemic][Merciless Spear][Stunning Strike]["Go For The Eyes!"]["Stand Your Ground!"][Anthem of Weariness][Anthem of Flame][Signet of Return][/build]

That was just a quick mess about with some skills for 5 minutes. No guarantees it will be any good but it looks quite fun.

Heroes tend to make bad decisions when using Epidemic. They dont cast it often and when they do, there are no adjacent monsters around the target. Stunning Strike is also not used right by the heroes. I prefer [[Spear Swipe] for daze on paragon heroes. Melee heroes tend to be bad too.

Got this from Sab's partial build suggestion, this build should work on a Rit hero:

[Rit hero;OACjEyiM5MHXMm3MjNMHnSzkLA]

Cebe · May 29, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Heroes tend to make bad decisions when using Epidemic. They dont cast it often and when they do, there are no adjacent monsters around the target. Stunning Strike is also not used right by the heroes. I prefer [[Spear Swipe] for daze on paragon heroes.

I disagree regarding Epidemic. At least with Epidemic there is a chance that they will use it right, and to be honest, I've not really had any issues with it. Moreover, what's the implication of the hero making a bad decision? It's a 5 energy / 5s recharge skill so there is a chance of it to be recast many times during a battle. Stunning Strike is fine with those heroes also, as if you look at the bigger picture, the amount of other conditions being thrown around - inflicting Daze from that elite isn't going to be an issue, though I might consider changing Epidemic on the Paragon for [[For Great Justice].

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Melee heroes tend to be bad too.

They have gotten better of late. Assassin dagger attacks which require knockdown work much better, as do Hammer attack chains. As previously stated, the melee hero is in there to primarily act as a platform for Splinter-Rage. Melee heroes have no problem using Triple Chop, or melee interrupts...they're just often hesitant on using fully charged adrenal skills. One thing which does bug me about melee heroes is their tendency to kite for miles away from AoE spells, sometimes aggroing other enemy groups, but in circumstances where enemy mobs are clode knit, a little micromanagement through flagging goes a long way.

Fire The Nutter · May 29, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Well what ive learnt, seeing a lot of builds here on Guru is to try and tick a few certain boxes when looking at your team.

2 healers - in most areas this is sufficient, if your playing Rit support I suspect one healer might be you, the other could be a hench, or you could look for a healer as one of your heroes.
Recent buffs have lead to people suggesting [Ether Renewal] + lots of expensive heals [heal area] as a "red bar goes up" healer. I generally run a more standard monk bar as one of my monks, something along the lines of
[word of healing][dwaynas kiss][dismiss condition][cure hex][reversal of fortune][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][protective spirit]
As you can see I like the concept of big heal, small heal, small prot, big prot, condition removal, hex removal, energy management, optional

Sources of weakness, cracked armor, blind and protection are all a good way to go, a good E/Rt bar can provide 3 of those [shell shock][enervating charge][blinding flash]

Also think about spreading out the jobs like hex removal etc across the team to take pressure off your monks, [hexbreaker aria] is a good option if you are taking paragons. I like para's, good DPS lots of shouty team help and that would give you a good target for splinter if you plan on running it.

Interrupts are a great idea too, much easier to just avoid that MS hitting at all rather than thinking about healing through it. [broadhead arrow] is a great source of daze, add in [savage shot][distracting shot] for a pretty decent ranger interrupt build. If you prefer mesmers DarkSpirits fast cast, interrupt/res mesmer is a great option, been running that for a while with my teams now as its easy to pop to EoTN and grab Gwen and just get it up and running. Plus of course you can just make say an ele as mesmer secondary and pop in something like [power drain] to assist with both energy management and interruption.

Cebe · May 29, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire The Nutter

[word of healing][dwaynas kiss][dismiss condition][cure hex][reversal of fortune][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][protective spirit]
As you can see I like the concept of big heal, small heal, small prot, big prot, condition removal, hex removal, energy management, optional

Just a small note. I find Hero monks spam Reversal of Fortune a little bit too much. I've always found [[Guardian] or [[Signet of Rejuvenation] to be more preferable. The Signet, of course, aiding energy management, and Guardian is still an excellent protection spell but a little less spammable.

Lodar Aric · May 29, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Hi there,

I run an Ele myself and I am starting to get into HM Vanquishing. I tend to run a dual attune air build using blinding flash or use blinding surge build as I haven't found fire that effective in hard mode.

I was just wondering what setups might be good for my profession, I’ve started to look into the sabway builds but I was also wondering if there was any other builds someone could recommend that would go with my Elementalist main char. I've looked at the Racway? paragon build thread and it seems to me it doesn't really go with an Ele

I have all the elites so I could change my style of play to synergise with some hero suggestions.

Any build suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

DarkSpirit · May 29, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I disagree regarding Epidemic. At least with Epidemic there is a chance that they will use it right, and to be honest, I've not really had any issues with it. Moreover, what's the implication of the hero making a bad decision? It's a 5 energy / 5s recharge skill so there is a chance of it to be recast many times during a battle. Stunning Strike is fine with those heroes also, as if you look at the bigger picture, the amount of other conditions being thrown around - inflicting Daze from that elite isn't going to be an issue, though I might consider changing Epidemic on the Paragon for [[For Great Justice].

True that it is cheap and spammable and you can bind it to a key and micro it if you wish. But it takes abit of micro managing to spread the daze around when you encounter adjacent casters provided stunning strike got off right in the first place.

Quote:

They have gotten better of late. Assassin dagger attacks which require knockdown work much better, as do Hammer attack chains. As previously stated, the melee hero is in there to primarily act as a platform for Splinter-Rage. Melee heroes have no problem using Triple Chop, or melee interrupts...they're just often hesitant on using fully charged adrenal skills. One thing which does bug me about melee heroes is their tendency to kite for miles away from AoE spells, sometimes aggroing other enemy groups, but in circumstances where enemy mobs are clode knit, a little micromanagement through flagging goes a long way.

The problem with warrior heroes is not their attacks but their pathing to the target. Assassin heroes had a further problem of attack chains which was fixed. Sometimes you can see your warrior hero standing beside the target and doing nothing or you see him running around like a mad chicken not being able to decide on the target and getting hit from ranged attacks at the same time. Or you see him running back and forth like a yoyo from AoE attacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodar Aric

Hi there,

I run an Ele myself and I am starting to get into HM Vanquishing. I tend to run a dual attune air build using blinding flash or use blinding surge build as I haven't found fire that effective in hard mode.

I was just wondering what setups might be good for my profession, I’ve started to look into the sabway builds but I was also wondering if there was any other builds someone could recommend that would go with my Elementalist main char. I've looked at the Racway? paragon build thread and it seems to me it doesn't really go with an Ele

One suggestion is to use [[They're On Fire] Paragons and use a [[Searing Flames] build on yourself. For example of a ToF Paragon,

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...6&postcount=59

Shadowphoenix · May 29, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Just a small note. I find Hero monks spam Reversal of Fortune a little bit too much. I've always found [[Guardian] or [[Signet of Rejuvenation] to be more preferable. The Signet, of course, aiding energy management, and Guardian is still an excellent protection spell but a little less spammable.

ok, beaver I understand the hybrid WoH that's the same one that I use except for the Reversal of Fortune and Prot. Spirit, I replace them for Signet of Rejuvenation (instead of Reversal) and Res Chant (instead of Prot), my question is the following: "In general use is more reliable using Guardian or having a Res in the bar", that my only doubt because most of the time I use Res Chant but I want to know if the change with Guardian is too drastic or don't affect that much. thanx

Cebe · May 30, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

ok, beaver I understand the hybrid WoH that's the same one that I use except for the Reversal of Fortune and Prot. Spirit, I replace them for Signet of Rejuvenation (instead of Reversal) and Res Chant (instead of Prot), my question is the following: "In general use is more reliable using Guardian or having a Res in the bar", that my only doubt because most of the time I use Res Chant but I want to know if the change with Guardian is too drastic or don't affect that much. thanx

Do you die a lot?

If the answer is yes then probably keep the Res for now, and work on the not dying bit. If you're party generally ploughs through enemies then I'd say drop the Res for another, more useful, skill for more ploughing.

If you give a Hero Monk a Res skill, disable it. If someone dies it shouldn't really be the Monk who resurrects them anyway, because it takes an important support player out of the game for several seconds while the party is being mashed in the face under even more pressure.

Shadowphoenix · May 30, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Do you die a lot?

If the answer is yes then probably keep the Res for now, and work on the not dying bit. If you're party generally ploughs through enemies then I'd say drop the Res for another, more useful, skill for more ploughing.

If you give a Hero Monk a Res skill, disable it. If someone dies it shouldn't really be the Monk who resurrects them anyway, because it takes an important support player out of the game for several seconds while the party is being mashed in the face under even more pressure.

Actually the less that I do is dying, I ask you the question because my friend and I do vanquishing plus dungeons, since both of us don't die that much well I guess that my monk will be with guardian, thanx for the answer beaver ^_^

sean520 · Jun 01, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

well, ive decided to start doing HM Factions missions

does anyone got any good/fun team builds that will help me?

thanks guys!

sean520 · Jun 03, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean520

well, ive decided to start doing HM Factions missions

does anyone got any good/fun team builds that will help me?

thanks guys!

well, i was trying to do some HM missions, but then i saw Racway or w/e. it uses a paragon player with SY!

i was thinking, as a rit if i went something like..wepon of fury, flurry, cyclone axe, SY!, WW attack (that war sunspear skill), arage, splitner, res

or something like that, do you think it could kinda take place of the para player? or is another rit build better, if so, please leave it!!

thanks

noneedforclevernames · Jun 07, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

i'm sorry if this post seems unproductive, but the people with hero builds exceeding the capabilities of sabway won't post them here and reveal them to the public.

-Lotus- · Jun 07, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneedforclevernames

i'm sorry if this post seems unproductive, but the people with hero builds exceeding the capabilities of sabway won't post them here and reveal them to the public.

your an idiot. there are no "secret" builds. everyone who thinks they have an amazing secret build has an old build which no one uses anymore or just a really crappy assortment of skills they threw together.

DarkSpirit · Jun 07, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneedforclevernames

i'm sorry if this post seems unproductive, but the people with hero builds exceeding the capabilities of sabway won't post them here and reveal them to the public.

It is not that they intend to keep it a secret. People who know builds that exceeds sabway would be ridiculed if they do post them here. Sabway establishes certain mindset that are difficult to change. For example, Splinter Weapon is the best damage in the game, physical damage is better than elemental damage, PvE does not need hex removal, etc.

If you try to prove anything differently, from what everyone believes in, you would be shot down before you have a chance to convince others to even try it in the game. But posting sabway variants are fine though since they more or less "go with the flow" of the established mindsets. Remember sabway is now a religion and you dont want to be ex-communicated now do you?

-Lotus- · Jun 07, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

It is not that they intend to keep it a secret. People who know builds that exceeds sabway would be ridiculed if they do post them here.

like that anti-synergy team that your in love with?
haha

DarkSpirit · Jun 07, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

like that anti-synergy team that your in love with?
haha

+ others.

There isn't much synergy in sabway anyway besides general necro soul reaping which is not really a build skill bar property but just using necros or not. Splinter and barbs help physical damage on the minions, but doesn't help my caster characters and caster henchies much. And unless you only play a necro and only bring Eve, you are not going to get the soul reaping benefit for the rest of your team either.

Builds CAN be optimized based on characters and areas. I have different team builds for casters, melee, and ranged characters. Sabway is just a generic team build if you want to talk about synergy across your entire team.